Your choice of “battle the woke mob” verbiage spoke volumes Erik. I know where I’ve heard that before, and don’t believe it to be a reliable news source. On a personal note, my family became much more accepting of both gender and racial diversity when their children felt safe enough simply to be themselves around them. I am so proud of those kids and the family that embraces them. I will continue to speak out on their behalf because love is love - whatever their pronoun may be.
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I hate to say that I might reconsider my membership. I came here to try and meet friends, but instead it seems like theres a lot of animosity amongst several members.
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While I have a few misgivings about the policy as written I am sure we are seeing why a policy was overdue. Any person doesn’t deserve to experience prejudice. Everyone does deserve to live their inner life however they see fit, but doesn’t have any right to impose it on others.
Rationalization and justification is a two edged sword. It can be a defense mechanism when feeling outnumbered or when one’s moral beliefs are challenged. But it’s entirely natural to explain one’s beliefs if we think we’re being misunderstood.
Unfortunately, expressing our internal reasoning publicly can impose on others rights. Making someone a little uncomfortable about their reasoning is acceptable in some contexts. We all can benefit from examining closely our prejudices for where they come from and considering carefully whether we’ve been wrong and whether we’ve hurt others and ourselves. But, and this is very important, it’s abusive and unacceptable to impose on others when doing self examination.
It’s really difficult to know when we’re about to cross the line. It’s sometimes best to find a better way to do self awareness than using people in a public forum who did not ask our opinion. Especially on topics that border on religion or politics.
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I’d hope that 98% or more of the people at the makerspace are changing absolutely nothing about their conduct because they’re already treating others exceptionally.
It is a bit disheartening to see that a small group appears ready to pop off at any perceived grievance. And it’s much much worse to the point that it’s hard to put in words when that grievance is someone simply existing.
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sigh
Hormone therapy is not “getting fake parts attached,” which is also not mastectomy, autogynephilia is pseudoscience, voice modulation is largely learned via practice, people identify as trans who never “transitioned” in any sense and have no intention of doing so, you have no idea what someone’s genitals or chromosomal makeup are just by looking at them or listening to them, and watching videos from who knows where is not research.
And with that hideous run-on sentence, I need to focus on packing for Thanksgiving in Texas/breaking up a literal cat fight.
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In other news, there are effective treatments for male pattern baldness and it is not necessarily irreversible especially with early treatment. However, caution should be exercised with topical therapies because Rogaine (minoxidil) is extremely toxic to cats and dogs (blood pressure problems and heart failure) if they ingest it…and some of those little furry creatures like to lick heads or eat the trash. That’s my PSA for the day.
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The murderer is non-binary. While I do agee that any murder is tragic, I don’t see how rhe Colorado Springs tragedy is relevant to this conversation.
If the murderer identified as an intermediate or separate third gender, identified with more than one gender, no gender (agender), or claimed to have a fluctuating gender identity I certainly did not catch that in the news coverage…
I stand corrected - but really had to dig for it - thanks Aaron. That was news to me.
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The murders happened as the calendar turned to Transgender Day of Remembrance, and news about the shooter is extremely limited. I still haven’t seen a news story claiming to know anything beyond a name and a reference to threatening a family member previously
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From the article I linked above:
Already this year, armed protesters and right-wing groups such as the Proud Boys have used intimidating tactics to disrupt drag-related events in Texas, Nevada and Oregon, as well as other states. Children’s hospitals across the United States are facing growing threats of violence, including bomb threats, driven by an online anti-LGBTQ campaign attacking the facilities for providing care to transgender kids and teens. And in October, a man attacked a transgender librarian in Idaho before yelling homophobic slurs and attempting to hit two women with his car. Idaho is one of 18 states that does not have hate crime protections for LGBTQ people, though many local law enforcement agencies still track those crimes. . .
According to Rodrigo Heng-Lehtinen, the executive director of the National Center of Transgender Equality, a quarter of those violent deaths happened in Texas and Florida. Those states have proposed dozens of anti-trans laws and regulations in the past two years or put in place anti-trans policies, such as Texas Gov. Greg Abbott’s order to investigate parents for child abuse if they provide gender-affirming care for their children.
“Anti-trans legislation, fearmongering, and disinformation put the trans community and trans lives at risk,” Heng-Lehtinen tweeted.
As of early Sunday evening, authorities had not yet confirmed the identity of the Colorado Springs victims, but online users have reported that at least one was transgender.
The club was holding a drag performance Saturday evening and planned to hold a Trans Day of Remembrance event Sunday. According to its website, the club is now closed until further notice.
Though Colorado has long been one of the country’s most LGBTQ-friendly states, recent attacks have escalated to a point where advocates say no place feels safe.
The Colorado Springs tragedy is relevant to this conversation because of the moral panic over a non-existent threat posed to American children by the acceptance of gay and trans people as normal human beings of sound mind and character, just like anyone else, whose dignity should be respected, just like anyone else.
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What is the moral panic you are referring to when one member of the LGBTQIA2S+ murders other members of the LGBTQIA2S+ community? It’s a tragedy for sure but it s relevance to this conversation should absolutely be should be questioned.
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What about what makes someone happy. If doing those things are what makes a person happy, they should be allowed to do it their way and not be harassed for it.
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It took you minutes to reply to me with “news about the shooter is extremely limited” while you chose to not say anything of the such for several hours to comment in which I responded.
I do agree that “news about the shooter is extremely limited”. As such, any assumptions about the murderer’s motives are speculative and likely rooted in personal bias. It’s situations like these that make keeping such biases out of otherwise productive conversations a worthwhile goal.
@Bee and @PastelBrandy I’m sorry some people here make you feel that way. Unfortunately, there are people everywhere who feel that way. It’s all over the world. So please don’t give up on being members of MakeICT just because of a very few people who can’t let people be themselves. I’m pretty sure they are the minorities here. You can’t let hate stop you from doing something you love doing, or being somewhere you enjoy being just because of people like that. It IS an inclusive environment with the exception of a very few people’s outdated opinions.
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I don’t really have issues with adult trans people. I absolutely think they exist (i mean that’s obvious) I’m not denying they exist. I hope they are happy and if they’re not, well there are a lot of people unhappy so i wish them the best. No need to repeat what i said. But it wasn’t hateful and i didn’t say anywhere that i didn’t want people to be happy.
I accidentally called a trans (i think) “him” once at the space. I don’t know that they were even trans but they wore a shirt with ruffley edges. I didn’t mean to say him. I was intentionally trying not to but did in the moment. I talked to that person a few days later about what they were working on and what i had been working on and everything seemed fine. Out of kindness I wanted them to know i did not have anything against them. Because i don’t. It’s appatenyly an easy caricature for people to attack if they can think of me as some kind of menacing, hate filled, ultra powerful evil doer.
Perhaps he was simply a cross-dresser. There are more men who do that than most people realize I think. I don’t personally know anyone who does it other than seeing it in the media. Nothing wrong with it as long as it makes them happy.
Anyone interested in some self discovery about their bias may benefit from taking some of the tests on this website: Select a Test
That link is for phones and touch screen devices, it has a link if you want to use a keyboard instead.
Be prepared to be surprised.
I really don’t want anyone posting any scores received, but I’m guessing the people who would benefit most won’t try any of the tests.
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The IAT is very interesting. I took it a few years ago and picked one that I felt pretty confident about, and I was surprised at the results: a slight negative bias towards a group I belong to and have always identified with.
Edit: btw, the takeaway here is that we’re all products of our environment and culture.
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It sounds to me like all these questions are “What if’s” They may need answers. I don’t think many of them need to be answered before the policy is in place.
I spent 30 years writing and implemented policies like this as a day job. My observations:
- If you imagine the worst, you are probably wasting your time.
- Write it, implement it and make adjustments as needed.
- We elected this Board effective last July. Part of being a member is allowing and Trusting the Board to implement policies, and to administer them fairly. Part of being the Board is trusting members to act responsibly.
- I enjoy all the makers I have met at MakeICT. This is a wonderful group of people. I joined and continued my membership to learn. The issues this policy revolves around are important and much earlier in my life were not prominent and were not considered important. That was wroing. They are important now and to put off implementing a policy to begin the defining of Be Excellent! is; to my mind another way to say the problem does not exist and is not important.
John
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With all due respect, it isnt really yout place to tell us when and where we should feel safe to be ourselves. You say there are only a few. But there are also only a few in this thread reassuring and defending our identities. Its not a majority, but its enough of a chunk that it looks like I DO need to watch what I say or do around people at MakeICT. This is clearly not a place I can feel comfortable about being myself. And the longer this thread gets and with the way they are talking about trans people, the more of a sour taste I get in my mouth.
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