The Board of Directors will be voting to enact a new Code of Conduct for MakeICT tomorrow during the normal Board Meeting.
The new Code of Conduct can be viewed here:
https://wiki.makeict.org/wiki/Discrimination_and_Harassment_Policy
1 Like
Is there any issue with this one simmering for a month instead of being on the agenda tomorrow?
There are a few small wiki formatting issues in the reporting section and end:
- email link is broken in outlook
- report URL page doesn’t exist and isn’t hyperlinked
- geekfemenism wiki isn’t linked
The reporting section also uses “the team” and “abuse team” - I assume both of these mean the Board of Directors and not another group?
I’m no longer on the Board so I can’t speak to letting it rest for a month.
Those are good catches.
Probably best to let the Discrimination and Harassment Policy Committee know. I tagged Sherry and Rustin.
Small formatting issues are not a reason to further postpone an issue that has been ignored far too long. I could provide quite a lot of issues which have been occurring in the absence of one.
The report link has not been approved by the Board yet so wouldn’t be expected to work.
The Board will discuss the Board vs. a separate committee at the meeting tomorrow.
4 Likes
I’ll just add, the committee has been on the calendar since August 30th working on this and has met twice a month to get this done. I personal have not been able to attend all the meetings, but when I asked, I was able to get access to what was going on and give my thoughts. I purposely did that on the forum to make other members aware that there are multiple ways to participate. @shack are there other ways we can engage members in process like this so they don’t feel blindsided other than what we are currently doing? So we have more member engagement in the future?
3 Likes
That’s not really the same as actively encouraging the wider membership of MakeICT to view and comment on a policy no matter how necessary it is.
4 Likes
I agree. I am curious about the issues though - is it a few people causing lots of issues or a lot of people each causing just a few issues? Is it stuff that we want people to sit out a week for or a month or leave the makerspace entirely? I know each case is probably radically different.
The Board will discuss the Board vs. a separate committee at the meeting tomorrow.
Thanks for clarifying that. It’s kind of a weird one in that you’d hope the committee wouldn’t need to do much work haha
Edit: ironically, formatting issues
Honestly, I think just giving a big wide audience time bit of time to reflect on the end product before putting it into production creates better results. It was in the newsletter and on the forum some so it’s not like the policy was pulled out of a hat.
When was the proposed code of conduct finalized, and when was it given to the members for consideration?
1 Like
As a policy it is not required to be presented to members for consideration prior to being voted on by the board. But it’s been available readily since Nov 9 when it was posted on the Wiki on the committee page (so one click off the main page, just tap the committee name and you’re there), and linked to in the agenda when the agenda was posted last week. Only minor wording cleanups have been made since.
Speaking of policies, @David , your letterpress auth class says a prerequisite for the class is reading a letterpress area access policy we don’t seem to have yet? 
and I do really want to take that class, someday I won’t have a conflict. I want to be prepared 
1 Like
Clearly my letterpress policy is not in place yet, and that’s on me. But it really doesn’t have anything to do with this. While it (the access policy) might be quite easy to access, I wouldn’t expect the members at large to know to go looking for it. Was there an announcement that the policy was complete, and where it could be found? There very well may have been, but I don’t recall seeing anything about it.
4 Likes
I’ve been told on more than one occasion that the board doesn’t have to present the membership with new policy. That if the membership wants to get involved the committee meetings are on the calendar or attend the board meetings to be heard and keep up with what’s going on.
4 Likes
When the exact wording is decided on and the policy voted in, it will be rapidly disseminated through multiple avenues.
Edit to add; I’m pretty sure members are directed to look at the Wiki for information such as access policies during member orientation.
2 Likes
I plan on attending tonight, but it seems like we might want to be more specific about several things.
If someone is accused , what evidence is necessary?
What actions would lead to a warning vs a suspension?
Is a person refunded payments they made in advance to makeict if they are suspended?
If someone is accused of something do they get to tell their side, or are they judged purely on one person’s accusation?
Are we going to include gender identification on our badges?
If someone self identifies as something, are they responsible for informing the community?
Can people make a claim for someone else?
It seems odd that the committee can reject claims. If someone feels their claim is legitimate, but being ignored, what would the next step be?
What about people insulting other people work? Is unsolicited criticism considered bullying?
Is raising your voice considered bullying?
Are their terms that are/ are not allowed (is dude gender free/ do we have free speach in the space)?
Are events allowed to be gendered?
I know that’s rambling, but i have several questions about a policy that is very necessary, but could end up being exclusionary.
10 Likes
Those are all excellent questions.
I have serious issues with this new code of conduct. This does not follow our be good to one another basic code. As a white male, I can be harassed and hated openly if the board deems it ok. As a man, I cannot meet a fellow member of either sex and tell them they are beautiful to me, inside and out, without fear of them saying I am harassing them for showing interest in them. We should not be getting involved in correcting for sins of the past. We should not get involved with peoples personal lives. We should not hold any group or person as better or worse than any other. We do not know the full life and story of every person and setting groups based on xyz as above or protected will create more problems than it will ever solve. We should not hold any idea as the only way and all other opinions as unacceptable. We must be liberal in our acceptance of everyone as they are.
Explicit harassment is not ok, but if we are going to condemn someone based on the accusations of another, without due process, we are telling everyone to keep their mouth shut and do not make friends. We should hold each member as equal, no member should have more rights or privileges than any other, having a group who is free to do as they wish and another group who cannot even say I disagree sets us up for failure. WE MUST ALL BE EQUAL.
Not being a mind reader, how am I to know if my thoughts offend someone? Say they are telling me about how they like to do XYZ, now personally I find XYZ to be wrong and say so. Does that mean I lose my membership because the board has chosen that xyz is not allowed to be questioned or commented on? And how am I to know that I am not allowed to question that? Why are they free to say their opinion, but I am not allowed to say mine if it is different?
What is deliberate misgendering? If I see a person with long hair, a beautiful feminine face, other female body parts and I refer to them as “Mam, Miss, Mrs” trying to be respectful, not knowing they consider themselves to be a man, does that count and I am to be punished?
Say David Spring made something amazing, I say wow, great job and pat him on the back saying how wonderful of a job he did. Now I didn’t mean anything by the pat on the back other then support and that I was proud of him. However, the pat of the back to him meant I wanted to sleep with him and it offended him. Am I going to be punished?
Sustained disruption of discussion. So if I disagree with something on the forum, does that mean if I bring up my disagreement more than once that I am sustained disruption of the discussion and will be punished? Who is to decide if I am a disruption? Who is the judge?
Unwelcome sexual attention. See above, but how am I to know that any attention is unwelcomed? How am I to know if they will consider any attention as sexual even if I do not intend it to be considered sexual? Am I guilty without trial?
“MakeICT prioritizes marginalized people’s safety over privileged people’s comfort.” The Board of Directors reserves the right not to act on complaints regarding:
WHO DECIDES WHO IS MARGINALIZED AND WHO IS PRIVILEGED?
WHO DECIDES WHAT IS RIGHT AND WHAT IS WRONG?
WHY THE F ARE WE JUDGING PEOPLE AT ALL?
WHY CAN WE NOT BE EQUAL?
I will cancel my membership, stop donating my time, knowledge, and skills to the makerspace, and never look back if this gets passed as it is currently written.
5 Likes
This are all REALLY GOOD QUESTIONS!!
YESSSS!!! Well said….
I posted a copy of this policy on the bulletin board, hopefully people will see it, and ask questions.
It seems as if a lot of work has gone into the new proposed policy.
Very concerned about the reason why this is being pushed through for a vote in less than ten days from its post on the wiki.
What is the harm in letting something of this nature that is “intended” to be a guideline of behavior and safety be looked at by the members prior to the board voting on it. That said, 4 of the committee members are board members, so it would seem the vote is is just a technicality.
I keep seeing verbiage stating policies do not “have to” be shown to members, prior to putting them into effect, but why not? Why have this rushed through……
Is this truly for protection of the space or agenda pushing?
5 Likes
I can understand people worrying that their views may get them into some sort of trouble but it doesn’t seem that the Code of Conduct is being written to intentionally cause any problems for anyone at all. It’s just pointing out some of the issues that can come up. Most organizations do have a Code of Conduct as a necessary way to spell out acceptable and unacceptable behavior. It’s unfortunate that these things are necessary, but they are needed.
The last sentence under the “Shorter version” as well as the “Longer version” states “We do not tolerate harassment of participants in any form.” Just that one sentence seems to me to cover ALL participants being harassed in any way. From that one sentence it seems that some people may be worrying about punishment for no reason at all. It all boils down to respect for each other.
It’s never a good idea these days to touch anyone you don’t know, or that you aren’t friends with, in any way other than something like a handshake, which can be accepted or turned down by the person who is offered that handshake. That only protects yourself.
There’s a huge difference between aquaintances and friends. If you don’t know someone well enough to know for sure how they will react to a joke, a comment, or a pat on the back, you aren’t well enough acquainted with them to be offering those things, no matter how innocent you feel those things are.
Now, I totally agree that we aren’t mind readers and, unless we’re informed previously, we probably don’t know if someone has a preference for a certain pronoun or anything else. But in those instances, both sides need to be able to converse in a fair, mature, and civil manner and not be offended by being informed of those preferences. Neither side should be offended in that case unless the abuser keeps doing that abusing after being informed.
I think if we all act like mature and civil adults when we’re around each other, a Code of Conduct should not cause any problems for anyone.
Thanks, and I’ll step off my soapbox now. 
6 Likes