When I was a manager at Dillard’s we got reamed, by a customer, for showing the 5th Element on the TVs in Electronics. Not because of the love making scene but for the white banded outfit. You can’t please everyone.
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From the start, this thread has been about asking the membership how they feel about our policies. You are focusing on a single incident which I reported and I hope will be addressed. The incident did change my view, but insulting offending members online doesn’t help, hence why I didn’t name the thread “where is security; please help me”. I would be fine with anyone I have told to talk to the board or the anti discrimination committee… especially if they omit my name. Instead, everyone has been jumping on me for sharing my opinion on how to keep minors safe and making legally (im not going to call 911 on a kid for breaking the law and not knowing better).
As you pointed out, if I think there needs to be a change, take charge. It seems like we need to revise our policies around guests and minors. This forum thread shows that there is a weakness there. I am now planning on chairing a committee to review these policies. If anyone wants to join, please let me know.
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perhaps maybe having a time limit on accessibility on a badge in relation to the holder’s age. anyways, i do really hate meetings, and look at them as a waste of creative/nap time. However, i would be interested in the committee that @Ben.rogers is proposing.
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Good for you BEN!! It was just a series of questions to have an open discussion which turned into a pile on you.
I hope you have a full OPEN MINDED, thoughtful folks step up to help you with this.!!
If ya need anything let me know I will do what I can
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So I have missed a lot with this discussion and still catching up on it. But as the parent of both the 16 year old and 11 year old on this list (yes I’m evidently legally responsible for half of the minor members), I’m in favor of Minor membership. They still have taken the same safety and orientation as the adult members and I ensure that they are aware of their surroundings, respectful of others and act accordingly. They know to take care of what is in the building and leave things in better shape than they found them. I would have zero worry of them messing up anyone’s work as they would know better as to touch them. Do I feel that I would need to accompany them in the building for every step they take? No, especially not as a paying member who again has been through the trainings.
Guests would be a different view for me though. I would feel safe to assume that most if not all guests would not have gone through any safety or classes to operate equipment and yes may not understand the full idea of other people’s work within MakeICT.
Also would I let my two bring a guest into MakeICT? I would say if they wanted to bring a guest it would be more of a guest of myself, rather than them. But on that subject it seems that maybe Minor Guests are the issue and not Minor Members (again as there are only 4)? As a responsible parent of my two I feel that the badge restrictions that are in place already is sufficient. I would also like to hear more on this committee.
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I wanted to start by saying that I have talked with all the members interested in being on the committee extensively. Most of them are parents, and none of them want to eliminate minors from the building or from our membership. The main concerns that have been voiced have been around minors bringing other minors as guests and minors in the building late at night without adult supervision. Although, there has also been discussion around how close supervision should be, if there should be censorship of art (which I would like to hear your opinion on) and how to correct minors who are not following policies without calling the police, lol.
If you or your children are interested in joining the committee, you are absolutely welcome to do that (direct message me, email me, or say so on the forum). We have requested the board approve our committee, but we are open to more committee members and members comments. The committee will not require a ton of meetings, more bouncing around emails with questions and reviewing proposed revisions. We will also have a final document review meeting open to membership before bringing changes to the board.
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I am interested in joining the committee for sure.
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Sounds good, you are on the list.
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I considered this to be a helpful resource in my thoughts on minors with minors in the building. It feels like the same precautions necessary when allowing 16 year-olds to drive other minors around. Here’s what K-DOT had to say about that…
“FOR 6 MONTHS: At age 16, a restrictive license is available which limits passengers to no more
than one non-sibling passenger under the age of 21 and restricts driving after 9 p.m. unless
driving to and from work/school as part of the restrictive license. After successfully completing
that six month period, full licensing with no restrictions is available at age 16½.”
So maybe limiting minors to having only one guest is the way to accommodate that.
Finally, the font desk set-up needs some tweaking to make it easier to expect the general membership to log (and tag) their guests.
P.S. I’d consider joining the committee, but it sounds like you already have plenty who are eager to help.
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Out of curiosity, do we have a minimum agr for membership? I dont have a problem with a 16 year old or even an 11 year old, but at what age do we draw a line? Can a parent get a 8 year old a membership? Or a 3 year old? At what age is it permitted to drop them off alone? I know these are all hypothetical questions now, but in case it is something that we do run into in the future I think we should have some biundaries in place just as a safety net.
I might be interested in joining the committee, but mostly due to the issue of censorship. I feel like I am someone who would be directly affected by this issue if any censorship was put into place.
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The Standing Rules state:
Minors are allowed to become members, but require sponsorship by an adult. A parent or legal guardian must co-sign the minor’s membership application and release of liability. Minors under the age of 16 need to be accompanied by an adult whenever at the space. Keys are available to members over the age of 16, following the key policy.
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Thank you!
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My opinion is that there should be no censorship at all.
As stated before, there should be a sign at the doors which states that there may be objects in the space that could be seen as objectionable. Maybe there should also be a statement saying the same thing on the waivers that have to be signed by parents or guardians.
I also think there should be a limit to the number of younger kids who are brought in by any others who are 16 or younger, and all guests under a certain age should have waivers signed by parents or guardians.
I know some people are upset by seeing nudes or things like that, but body parts are not sexual in nature. If an object is depicting some sexual act, that may be considered objectionable, or pornographic by many people and perhaps those items should not be openly displayed except in a certain area or shelf/display cabinet. Those things wouldn’t bother me at all, but I know some people don’t want to see them.
As far as the eyeball art @Bee makes, and other things that may seem gory to some people, I’d say those things should not be censored at all. There are far worse things on tv and in the natural world.
These are only my own opinions and I’m not stating that I think my way is the only way. We all should have input if we have an opinion.
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Would this be a good topic to make a poll?
It sounds like you’ve got enough folks on the committee… but for the record here’s my stances…
- could I just agree to check on my kid every ~30 minutes, if they know the rules? the YMCA lets kids over 8 have free rein… I do feel like at that age they start to get a lot better at knowing the rules. our rules should admit that at some age, guests might be different than toddlers.
- I agree it’s okay to limit minors from bringing guests
- I’m okay with art that shows human bodies, just like all the museums I bring my kids to
- I do not want a big sign on our door that says there might be adult content, unless someone has really objected to a certain display and asked for a warning, maybe. hasn’t happened yet.
- no red curtains needed
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Also in Kansas at 8 years old kids can ride public transportation by themselves.
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Interesting events in ceramics tonight… we had adults and minors in….
The kids were a dream, respectful and could not ask for better behaved youngsters.
The ADULTS however… who are well aware of this topic and have let their voices and opinions be known,
These members no idea what so ever of how to conduct themselves in the ceramics department. Going through people’s personal cubbies, (which are clearly marked with names of renters) using personal tools, picking up, TOUCHING, and moving peoples projects. UNBELIEVABLE!!!
This is shocking to me. But what is even more shocking is when a youngster asked their parent to look up the rules for ceramics on the wiki…… the parent was unwilling to help them out.
And because the parent was not willing to look up the rule regarding the age minimum to use the wheel, they did not get to participate on that pottery form
All was not lost:
They did however make a sweet hand built project.
So, if the parents are not going to help the kids, how can the kids learn?
Why would / should the responsibility of teaching the youngsters be put onto other members of our community?
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A parent’s unwillingness to allow a minor to do everything the minor asks about (especially in the same evening) is normal parenting. There could be a dozen reasons why and it’s not our place to question every parental decision. It does not obligate the rest of society to jump in and teach the kid and doing so in this case would be actively undermining a parent.
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Those two members were @Malissa and me… we definitely learned a lot tonight! I hadn’t ever stepped into ceramics but my 9yo wanted to try it and she definitely wants to come back. @GCaine - thank you for your help and patience.
I am definitely sorry that I touched people’s personal projects, they’re cool! But I now understand that they are fragile and, well, people’s personal stuff. Do not touch. Got it.
Also sorry that I missed the private tool shelf labels, I thought those were for the projects and was looking for tools but I now understand there are plenty by the sink and the north wall.
I’m still confused about the ceramics wheel policy. I had just read the wiki before using the area, and we want our teenagers to learn to use the wiki, they’re going to be independent members someday so they need to learn now to look stuff up. The kid in this question was 14, and the ceramics policy says you need to be 16 unless the member supervising the child is experienced on the wheel… if I’m a member, and I’m not experienced, then my kid cannot use the wheel right? I wasn’t going to push any boundaries, especially after making my first few mistakes barging in there. I’ve also heard ceramics users talk about how there are so many great things you should learn about clay as a medium before you get into throwing, so I was going with that. what should we do next time?
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Thanks, @GCaine for your help and patience. I learned a lot about ceramics as well last night. I have heard there are templates for cups that @pwhutchi made. If someone could tell me where they are that would be great.
I think @Sherry and @Kim have explained parenting choices well, I don’t have anything else to add.
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This isn’t the YMCA though, and at the Y kids have places to be that won’t hurt themselves. I’m not about kids having access to dangerous equipment and roaming the building with their parents not knowing where they are, only where they should be.
I’d say if you’re not old enough to get a job, you’re not old enough to be have unchecked access to dangerous equipment and materials.
If every department had a locked scanner, I’d be okay that unauthorized people wouldn’t have access to it.
Kids are not infallible, they are going to play and explore and that’s okay but not around literally most equipment at MakeICT. I think under 14-16, they shouldn’t be by themselves in the building. At the same time, where are the kids going to be while parents are doing their thing?
There’s not a place specifically for kids, and this isn’t a daycare or daycamp. Please consider safety over comfort.
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