Legal guardians sign waivers to take responsibility for what is covered in the waiver the same as an adult member does. That’s the entire point of having legal guardians sign them, here or anywhere else. The waivers I sign at the doctor’s office for my children don’t have special wording, just the area under the patient signature for a legal guardian for those under 18 (we need to remember not all minors have parents with legal guardianship).
As previously stated by Christian, our policies are enforceable.
Security needs more volunteers. A general rule of thumb is, if you think a job needs done, you’re welcome to step up to do it.
If the 16-year-old cannot control their guest, then I would consider them just as responsible as an older member. We have had 16-year-olds at the space who were extremely responsible (including one who was the lead for ceramics for a while) and we have had older members who were not to be trusted. We should judge them by their behavior.
I get where people do not want other people to touch and break their stuff. I do not get where this is more likely with a minor thats unsupervised. For example, i was holding a silversmithing class and a keyed member was running the metal lathe with his older child in the room. This older child begins rummaging through my bag and i stopped them. Their father scolded them, that was the end of it.
I’ve had full grown adults with curious hands rifle through my personal tool bag just because it was out. Stopped them just the same.
As an adult, especially as a department lead, i will correct anyone at any time if im certain that something is happening that shouldn’t. Security is undermanned right now, hopefully that will change in short order but that doesn’t change the fact that as members you should also act as stewards of the building and address things as they are occuring. This is not a call for hall monitors, just a call to speak up if there is immediate threat to person or propert.
We’re a non-profit that charges a fee for access, not a city street or park, nor a place of amusement. Curfews are for public access space.
We allow tutoring, which is teaching for a fee.
There are some valid concerns here but there is also a lot of tilting at windmills going on too. If it is the memberships wish to move away from our educational mission statement and become a private institution simply for manufacturing we can certainly move in that direction.
I personally think we should have more kids in here. I would love to give disadvantaged youths the time and tools to do something others then all the things curfew laws are made to prevent. I would love to see members mentor these “troubled youth” instead of trying to drive them from the space because they “don’t know better”. Lets f#@$ing -teach- them then. An hour of time to mentor to change a lifetime. Good return on investment.
I do not believe anyone has even suggested, or even hinted at wanting fewer kids/children/minors in MakeICT. Education is one of the main goals of MakeICT and one of the Best parts.
Why does the quest for more accountable supervision equate to “move away from our educational mission statement”?
Windmill: The father who’s “older child” was rummaging around in your bag, until you stopped it. Is an example of an unsupervised child, because Dad was focusing on a project and not his child. If no one was there to say something, would that “older child” be playing with the jewelry supply, glass rods, or other shiny objects in the metal shop?
It was a good thing you were there to keep an eye on your stuff and that kid. I am not a parent, and I should not be made to parent someone else’s minor.
YES! for member mentors! YES! for f#@$ing -teach- them
By my reading, our policies contradict curfew laws.
All of our policies assume lawful activities. Meaning we assume what, when, and how your doing is not breaking any laws. So if its illegal for you to be there, our wording is not going to be your saving grace in court. And its folly to make rules that are already covered by laws.
Damn… he beat that murder rap because MakeICT has a vague wording about how long you can stand in one spot.
I do not believe anyone has even suggested, or even hinted at wanting fewer kids/children/minors in MakeICT. Education is one of the main goals of MakeICT and one of the Best parts.
Why does the quest for more accountable supervision equate to “move away from our educational mission statement”?
Windmill: The father who’s “older child” was rummaging around in your bag, until you stopped it. Is an example of an unsupervised child, because Dad was focusing on a project and not his child. If no one was there to say something, would that “older child” be playing with the jewelry supply, glass rods, or other shiny objects in the metal shop?
It was a good thing you were there to keep an eye on your stuff and that kid. I am not a parent, and I should not be made to parent someone else’s minor.
YES! for member mentors! YES! for f#@$ing -teach- them
Im fine with supervised kids. I have encouraged people to bring their kids. I like a bunch of kids here. I know and like @Malissa 's son, all of @GrapeApe 's kids, and I don’t know her, but have always thought @jwithers daughter was well behaved.
I don’t know if the risk is worth the reward with having a ton of usd259 virtual students around. I have stated that publically.
In private I detailed to you my conplaint because you are part of the Anti Discrimination/Anti Harassment Committee which would suggest you might consider asking before publically talking about my complaint. Which is made more frustrating when you misrepresent my complaint.
I have avoided speaking for other people or accusing them on the forum.
I did hear you @squarenuts say we might want to censor art for the kids around here (at the last anti-discrimination meeting) which I totally disagree with.
You expressed frustration that no action has been taken to stop rules being broken. I am not implying ceramics is to blame, I’m looking for action which can be taken.
Security can’t be present at all times. We don’t have funds for hiring employees. Cameras are still in the works. To get anything done on this matter, it is helpful to pinpoint the riskiest times and evaluate what can be done immediately.
The only damage mentioned so far was on a Tuesday during ceramics night (or at least that’s how it’s been made to sound) and the information provided suggests this is a time frame we could begin focusing on to prevent damage - particularly if we have non members entering without signing waivers or obtaining badges.
We’d like to help, but complaining isn’t action. More restrictive policies does nothing if we aren’t following present policies. Because we’re limited on time and personnel resources, damage to private property such as ceramics on shelves, and damage to the facility, will naturally take priority over a child walking to the bathroom alone or walking down the hallway not hurting anything.
If you’ve spoken to board members before on this matter but expect those communications to remain private, I’m not entirely sure how those board members would be able to take action. And of course, investigations are supposed to be performed before action is taken, which delays it a bit.
So if you don’t want help troubleshooting how we can make sure the public follows rules on ceramics night, and we have no further specifics and aren’t allowed to talk about it, I’m not really sure what action you do want.
I have zero kids but I’m the cool aunt. As the cool aunt I do feel kids act different when they feel parents/supervision aren’t around.
So do we need to update the policy or actually start enforcing the current policy/guest? Especially if maybe we aren’t holding up the guest /other policies as we should. As we do introduce members across different spectrums, we may find ourselves having to handle things differently than we have in the past.
FWIW, unless I bring them I hardly run into kids at the makerspace. The ones I do see there are watched like hawks. Solid chance my opinion is pretty biased here.
That’s a good point. I think we should be focused more on reviewing the current policies as it pertains to members, before we vilify a demographic. Otherwise we have to solve the same problem twice. Once for a minority, then once for the majority. Which doesn’t seem fair or efficient to me.
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On Wed, Dec 7, 2022, 08:40 Jessica Wiley Conger via MakeICT Forum <noreply@talk.makeict.org> wrote:
I have zero kids but I’m the cool aunt. As the cool aunt I do feel kids act different when they feel parents/supervision aren’t around.
So do we need to update the policy or actually start enforcing the current policy/guest? Especially if maybe we aren’t holding up the guest /other policies as we should. As we do introduce members across different spectrums, we may find ourselves having to handle things differently than we have in the past.
FWIW, unless I bring them I hardly run into kids at the makerspace. The ones I do see there are watched like hawks. Solid chance my opinion is pretty biased here.
I believe guests of all ages need to be appropriately supervised. Don’t bring guests if you are not willing to be responsible for them. If a member has violated that responsibility, the board and/or security should be notified directly and specifically.
I also believe the art gallery (at least the hallway) should be censored, as we’ve had a lot of interest from teachers to bring students. I’m not worried about the students seeing mature content, but I am concerned for the teachers who might find themselves in a compromising position made by inviting students into a place that they can’t safeguard the content.
In other words, A) teachers SHOULDN’T bring their students, or B) our content should be appropriate enough that a teacher won’t fear losing their job because of kids posing for pictures next to merkins. (Don’t google that on a work computer.)
I firmly believe that MakeICT remain family-friendly. Wichita has other options for those needing a kid-free environment.
I still disagree on censorship. Thats what field trip permission slips are for. And if the school doesnt detail to the parent that adult content may be displayed in the makerspace, thats on the school. Again, you wouldnt take a class to see the Statue of David and complain that he was exposed.
Permission slips probably help with that. Maybe a notice on the door of “Mature Content May Be on Display” would help mitigate some unpleasant surprises from those who’d like to avoid that. That’s what NPR does whenever they have a story that might not be suitable for all listeners.
Doing both probably would help. I still think if a school wants to do a field trip to MakeICT, they can be made aware of the possibility of adult content. It would impossible to draw the line as to what is and isnt “appropriate” anyway. Many parents consider different things to be inappropriate for different ages. My eyeball photos may be cool to an 8th grader, but frightening to a 1st grader. There’s far too much to account for even if we did make the decision to censor, but I feel like we shouldnt have to hide away parts of our organization to cater to a specific demograhic.
I am so curious how the Wichita art museum or other places in Wichita handle the censorship questions - there’s a lot of places that want field trips, and want art. I’m conflicted about it. I bring my kids to the makerspace all the time. I appreciate that no one has put anything too mature/explicit up on display.
NPR podcasts warn you about adult content, and tell you to go to the website for the beeped version. Basically sectioning things off. oh no… do we need red curtains?
Everyones definition of mature or explicit is different though. A tasteful nude painting may be considered a masterpiece by one person but considered pornographic by another (and having worked for a company that sold art Ive seen a lot of the latter complain unfortunately). To have censorship in the facility would only restrict the creativity of members, which would really stunt the organization altogether in my opinion. I especially dont want mine or anyones art behind any curtains…
You wouldnt believe what I heard in online customer service for the art website I worked at… “This image is disgusting why would you think this would be appropriate to put on the internet?! My husband uses this computer!” then I would see that they were on the page for The Birth of Venus by Botticelli
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