This is a great discussion, thanks everyone.
My personal opinion is that wearing a mask in the space is not a big deal and should be done by everyone in the spirit of compromising personal convenience for the safety and well being of others. I’ve been doing it for over a year now in the hallways and workshops. It’s an important tool for fighting the spread of COVID. Here are my reasons for why we should all continue to do it.
COVID is not over. We are not declining in cases right now, since the mandates have been lifted in Sedg. County the rate of infection has climbed steadily.
Yes, the chance of bringing COVID into the space seems minimal, especially if you’re vaccinated, but it is not nill, and while you may be vaccinated we know that less than a quarter of Sedgwick County residents are.
This means that if you pass a person in the hall without their mask on you have a 3 in 4 chance that they have not been vaccinated. Couple this to the fact that Kansas has experienced a number of breakthrough events where vaccinated individuals became infected. It points to a situation in which relaxing the request for mask wearing presents a clear path for COVID to enter the building and spread. The numbers just do not support the assertion that COVID is over or that the danger of contracting and spreading it is gone.
Regarding the assertion that it cannot be a mandate unless it’s enforced. I do not wish to have punitive action attached to the request for mask wearing. We are adults and should be able to conduct ourselves in a way that is beneficial to each other.
Please wear your mask in the building. Official numbers are attached below if you’d like to see them.
I agree . I’ve joined in the past year and the only reason I’m a member now is because I’ve felt that the board / membership as a whole has been taking decent precautions. All of science says it’s too early to relax at this moment.
Thank you everybody for your input. I’ve learn a few things. For one, my perspective, being a vaccinated retired guy who uses the space on weekday afternoons when no one else is there is different than a lot of you. I’m lucky to not be exposed to Covid protocols on a daily basis in the work force and I’m sure that changes your perspective. I do believe that vaccination is the best community defense and I’m stumped why more people aren’t getting it. Not getting the vaccine is as risky to the community as not masking.
I agree that the jury is still out on variants and vaccinated people being carriers and possible required boosters. The risk is not nil and never will be. We face risk every day driving our cars and even getting out of bed. At some point the risks become acceptable and manageable.
Lets then table this discussion. Like Patrick said, it’s still a raw and divisive issue and that was never my intent. Could we at least put it on the board itinerary in 60-90 days and again every 60-90 days as a discussion point? I would like to follow the rules and not make anyone uncomfortable but I feel pretty silly being vaccinated and the only person in the building or the room and being masked. I would happily carry one and put it on if someone else entered the room. What I was hoping for was someone to agree that that may be sensible.
And Patrick, thanks for your well written reply it enlightened me some on a different point of view. Lets go have a margarita sometime and talk about ceramics instead. I’d love to learn to throw again.
I love the fact that everyone here is very civil. I know we have several people at the space who are very venerable. It is probably better that we keep them on for a while. (I have also been guilty of taking it off when no one is around and putting it back on when I see someone). I know not everyone wants to get vaccinated, but if you know of anyone who is hesitant, you might try to make it easier for them. I bet if we got 60% shot we would be good enough.
I probably should leave this alone but We had an interesting observation this week end. We traveled to Brown, Nemaha and Doniphan county Ks for the Big Kansas Road trip. “Major” cities included Seneca, Sabetha, Hiawatha, and Troy. Their Covid rate and vaccination rate is roughly the same as Sedgwick county. Fewer than 10% of people we encountered were masked and no one held any expectation of any one being masked anywhere and social distancing was not observed. We attended indoor events, ate at hotel breakfast buffets and in indoor dining, and lots of outdoor events. I would not have gone if I hadn’t been vaccinated. What we found is an entirely different attitude, rural vs urban. We talked to some locals about it. They’re not scared, they are “independent, resilient and practical” Personally I think urban dwellers are influenced by the national media more and are influenced by large employer’s overabundance of caution for fear of litigation…
Just an observation and food for thought.
Wearing a mask for me personally doesn’t mean I’m “scared” I actually can’t stand that language. What happened to understanding how this virus is spread and doing what you can to protect others while keeping things up and running?
Also, I have a son at home who can’t be vaccinated yet, he’s too young and I don’t want to risk his health long-term. Also breakthrough cases are already happening. We’re sure to have a yearly shot just like the flu. https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/92071
Third, mask aren’t my favorite thing either. As a child, my sister pushed me out of a chair and I bit clean through my lip on the bottom right, I have a scar the shape of a W on the inside. When I had my wisdom teeth removed in 2007, the nerve pain started and has persisted ever since. It’s annoying but tolerable on most days. Folds and seams on mask don’t help, luckily I’m savvy with scissors and fabric. It still gets irritating but I know what’s at risk, it’s for the greater good.
I’m with Malissa on this. I’m fully vaccinated and still wearing a mask when I’m around people. Even when I’m somewhere where less than a quarter of people are masked.
I know my chances are very low of contracting covid-19 is very low, but that is true for every breakthrough case. It’s been sad to see how many people want to see it as a political statement.
In Sedgwick County there are about 50 people per day testing positive the last couple of weeks, so a minimum of 700 new, contagious, cases will appear over the next two weeks (trend is flat). I neither want to be one of those, nor exposed to someone contagious without symptoms. And, a minor inconvenience is the best way to improve my odds.
In lower population counties the chain of potential exposure includes proportionally fewer people. And, Nemaha County reports zero recent cases, so the risk calculation there is different than here in Sedgwick County.
Just my two cents and I realize many will disagree. I am fully vaccinated. I don’t see the need to wear a mask myself. I trust the vaccine to protect me and others from me. It may be possible for a vaccinated person to transmit the virus but I am not aware that the science exists to state that as a fact so don’t think I am a risk to others. If someone is in the space and they feel a need to wear a mask to protect themselves then by all means they should do that. But I don’t think I should have to wear one now that I have been vaccinated to protect others that are already vaccinated. If you have chosen to not be vaccinated for your own reasons then I would be surprised if you would expect others to wear a mask. If you have a medical reason for not getting the vaccination and requested I wear a mask while in proximity then I would because it is the courteous and polite thing to do.
With my engineering background working on aircraft safety and certification issues I know that we assume a certain amount of risk in everything we do every day. Whether it is driving a car, walking down the street or just sitting on the couch watching tv. My personal opinion is that vaccinated people have an extremely low risk of catching or transmitting Covid and the remaining risk does not warrant the inconvenience of constantly wearing a mask.
Having said all that I will wear a mask at the space while the policy remains in place. I do hope the board will review this policy on a regular basis.
Wouldn’t it make the most sense to follow CDC recommendations? That is what I am doing. It sounds like it won’t be too long for them to review the indoor masking policy. I am not an expert, so I figure - listen to the experts.
I’m not ashamed to admit that I am absolutely scared of spreading the virus to someone. My partner and I have a friend who is currently fighting for his life from COVID. He’s been in the hospital for about 6 months now - actually, he’s been transferred twice, so this is currently his third hospital in two different states. He’s in-and-out of consciousness, which is a significant improvement from his first few months. Doctors are recommending a double-lung transplant, but he’s not currently healthy enough to be an eligible candidate. I was very lucky to have an opportunity to communicate with him last week for the first time since December, but he only had the strength to type a short, single-sentence response, and it took him several minutes to do so. Still, we celebrated the achievement.
He’s my age and, before COVID, was a perfectly healthy dude. He was following guidelines, but they believe he caught it from an asymptomatic family member. His quality of life - even if he is able to receive the transplant - will never be the same.
I’m fully vaccinated and will continue masking because I can’t bear the idea that I might be responsible for putting someone through what I’ve seen my friend go through - or worse. I don’t know what I would do if I brought COVID home to my partner and put her through even a fraction of what we’ve seen this virus do.
I’m a bit shocked that people at the makerspace are being so cavalier with other members’ health. Since we’re fully vaxed, we’re slowly expanding our activities but carefully selecting what we do based on adherence to COVID precautions, so it’s disappointing to read that it’ll probably be a while yet before we can visit the makerspace again :-/
Roll your eyes at me if you want, but I’ll continue masking to keep you safe anyway. Regardless of what you might think of me, I would never wish COVID upon you, and I’ll do my best to make sure I don’t give it to you.
I 100% agree but how they use and mean “scared” is that they are demeaning me for wearing a mask. I am not “scared” in their sense of the word, nor will I be demeaned for wearing a mask. I’m wearing a mask out of respect and empathy for my fellow humans and that doesn’t make me less of a person.
Very well said @pwhutchi & I certainly feel your pain @dom . My sister-in-law got COVID in early 2020 in New York and had to suffer through it alone in her studio apartment, with people dropping off food & meds for her at her door. We got in the habit of texting her daily because we wanted to make sure she was still okay. Thankfully, she eventually recovered & she even finally got her sense of taste & smell back. Obviously, not everyone has been closely impacted, or I feel they would give this POS virus a wide berth as well.
I also agree with @Malissa about the “scared” moniker that gets thrown around. As some of you know, I’m a Shriner & there have been several times that people have been downright RUDE to me for wearing a mask, let alone asking them to put one on (which I have done, when the rules dictate it).
Someone telling me to put a mask on if I feel the need to protect myself has the cart before the horse. I can’t find the infographic right now but the reduction of risk from you wearing a mask is like 5-10%, but your reduction of risk if others wear a mask is like 80%+.
So, even if I was scared of getting COVID (I am also fully vaccinated) me putting my mask on is way less effective. It’s most certainly not “brave” to stand around in group of unvaccinated/unknown people just like it’s not cowardly to wear a mask.
Sorry for rambling, but I guess what I’m saying is this: If a place has rules that masks are mandatory, I wear my mask. If a place says masks are recommended, I wear my mask. If a place has no mask policy posted, I might wear a mask if I don’t know the people there. If it’s a place where I know the people, then I may skip the mask, but I’ll likely still avoid any indoor crowds.
I think perhaps many of us have become disconnected from the virus. I’ve not heard any "my cousin just tested positive " or "my in laws are quarantined " stories from friends and coworkers. So it becomes easy to admit it’s over. We have the vaccine and we won.
Having the vaccine available and eradicating covid ate two different things. I know I’ve disconnected from how horrible it is, at work about a fourth walk around un masked. When the email came out, many ripped their mask off like they just had a disappointing surgery on grey’s anatomy.
I hope your friend recovers soon. I’m no doctor but a double lung transplant sounds like they have a long road to recovery.
We are all sick and tired of hearing about covid. But perhaps we need to hear about covid so we can remember how serious it still is.
Masking isn’t about rights, or rules. It’s about double lung transplants.
Contrary to what you might think of me, I appreciate, consider and am empathetic and understanding of everyone’s point of view here. I’m trying to think about this logically and not emotionally. With a risk vs reward logic. What is all boils down to is what if the maskers are wrong vs what if the anti-maskers are wrong. If the maskers are wrong, its a mild inconvenience. If the anti-maskers are wrong the consequences could be severe. On the other hand there are 60,000 car accidents in Kansas every year but you all continue to drive even though you may hurt someone. Risk vs reward. I don’t want this mask issue to be our newest shoe bomber incident. That was 20 years ago and we’re still taking off our shoes at the airport. In effect, the terrorists won, they they changed our norms. I want this to be over and I want to see smiles again. I’m real independent so I got the vaccine. I’m real libertarian so I don’t like to be told how to live and I don’t expect others to be responsible for my decisions. But, I do follow the rules and laws and I will continue to mask at the maker space and anywhere else it appears that folks are uncomfortable unless I’m masked. Thank you all for this discussion it has been very valuable for both the maker space and the community to vent a little.
PS. The point of my post re: Nemaha/Brown/Doniphan county was not the word “Scared” (which I regret) it was that their infection and vaccine numbers per capita were nearly the same as Sedgwick Co. but their behavior and attitude were very different.
PPS Arrowhead stadium is returning to full capacity this fall.
WSU has rescinded all mandates requiring masks, social distancing, and mass gathering limitations.
Community colleges are taking the policy of “masks appreciated”
Just for infotainment purposes. Sedgwick county has been averaging 1-2 deaths a day, and about 47 new cases a day from covid according to nyt. (The first thing that came up when I googled)
Reno county averages about 4-5 cases a day and only has a death once and awhile. But Reno is a bit more rural. I mean… there is a big acreage of alfalfa across the street from me and I live in town (Hutchinson)
. I’ve joined in the past year and the only reason I’m a member now is because I’ve felt that the board / membership as a whole has been taking decent precautions. All of science says it’s too early to relax at this moment.