Work travel has picked back up again for me. My biggest concern ATM is the cost. Aside from a couple of suggestions that would probably be very inexpensive but have been generally disliked, most materials for the skin are going to be somewhat costly.
If there’s a group interested in running with this, I’m all for it being more of a community project. I only started the discussion to get something going before the week before the next ren faire.
[Im back from vacation]
The panel design im putting together does not include the (canvas) covering and painting. FYI. I might help but wont lead on that. Besides, my base panel design may not be picked. These are demo panels. Tbh, i will likely find the dinensions challenging as my last version of these had furring strips to hide edges. They did not have to fit tightly together as these need to.
But I do expect the demo panel build to teach about where we want hardpoints to attach eyes or to protect corners during moving. [Protecting people moving and setting up against sharp edges etc]
Its still on my calender as a range [Jun , 19, 20, 21… maybe one of those?], hopefully coned down to one or two build days. I may need a partner with a pickup to meet at Lowes. I dont mind buying/donating the demo panels. I dont mind if it turns out to be more days, but when applying urethane foam as adhesive [yes, its quite tough and thats WHY i like it so much] there is a fair amount of fit up as well as safety setup. So i suspect we will try to do all the carpentry and fitup on one day. Then the bonding on another day. The bonding isnt hard. But the time constraints are measured in minutes once you start exposing the foam to moisture in the air and spread it with a roller. Two or more builders recommended on a 24" by 8 ft panel. Wear old or tossable clothing. I will bring the foam in a can and disposable rollers.
I shopped the urethane insulation foam boards again and was shocked at the price. $75 for an 4x8 ft sheet. Ok, probly not that.
The stryofoam options included garage 4x8 panels and also a stiffer laminate of grey styrofoam at Lowes. But still $30 apiece, maybe doubling them up. I can carry them in my van but prefer a pickup owning peer to do that. Lowes had shower panels and 2x3s and the stiff grey styrofoam panels. Note, their 2x3s are straight, but also as heavy as typical 2x4s.
My preference for hardpoints is a round wood puck cutout and bonded inbetween. Do we need extra hardpoints for carry handles?
Also, I think maybe we can attach eyes or handles at the [inside] edges too. On the frame.
The top and bottom rails can be 2x2 or 2x3. No angle cut like on side frame members. I do NOT plan to miter angle cut corners.
The side rails will be split 2x3s or split 2x4s. But split at an angle so the panels butt together directly. To make a hexagonal structure. 60 degrees. This is something I think I can do. But have only done it before on a tilt blade table saw. Not an 8 foot run on a miter saw. How?
Im also pondering a rail and stile demo panel. Grooved frame. Single layer foam? But with the paneling cut to be slipped and glued into the groove in the frame. Adds even more stiffness. I see it as a variation on front and back panels. Only one of the “face sheets” is now in the groove. A very significant strength mod imo.
Would i ever recommend front AND back panels… in 2 grooves?
Yes. But ive not ever done it and know thats pushing limits on 2x2-ish frame.
We wanted light and strong and long lasting. Using epoxy as the groove glue would be pretty darn strong and could restore some resistance to frame splitting.
I really am open to other’s suggestions. Controlling dimensions in such large panels is going to require both skill and strength… that might be out of my typical lane. Im not interested in TELLING others how to build this. Most of our carpenter force peeps are WAY ahead of my skills. But i am composite panel experienced. And that is what we are building. I just built some of these. And i would say they are comparable to a Luan door. Which is surely cheaper. But hollow. And in wind… fragile.
Do my helpers need a blueprint or dimensioned drawing? It may need revised as we go. [Duh].
I wont try it all by myself as splitting a 4’x8’ accurately into two 2’x8’ panels is defs out of my lane for precision and repeatable work. And if i do a grooved frame for a stile type frame… the front face sheet will be 2’x8’, but the inner face sheet will have to fit inside and thus be cut an inch or so smaller.
And yet… it may make sense to consider two panels in two grooves.
Who is up for a demo panel build?
Or i can start with the smaller hex core sandwich panel build. Easier on short notice. Do we have a purpose for such a panel yet? A target build to inform the size we want to make?
Are you guys still up for making this castle happen, or do we need to scale back at this point?
I have been out of comm since 8 july when i had neck surgery that was way more limiting than i thot it might be. I still have at least 2 more months of limitations.
My ten pound lifting limit and restrictions on reaching and bending make this project far less imminent than i had hoped. Im really surprised at how limited I am… because another social peer had the same or similar procedure and he only needed 3 days of recovery. Clearly he didnt have the same “extent” of surgery.
Plus, I got an email indicating my MakeICT membership was on hold until i paid my dues. And i just intended to leave it like that until i was physically able again.
I guess Im glad to see this question here -indicating there is still some interest. Im about ready to setup to do a demo panel if you say you are interested.
Also, i had run into a youtube vid where someone else was using the same grey 3 layer styrofoam as a lam panel. This, sort of validating my choice for inner sandwich panel.
Is fall Renfair driving a desire to see a demo build?
Yes, I think there was a weird thought that the goal was to have something built for the fall fair.
After the discussion Saturday, it may be a bit far to get everything done, but we might be able to get a shell done.
We have a general idea of how to build the structure, but the facade is still looking to be a bit of challenge. We might try 3d printing a mold and then pulling a fiberglass skin off the mold. I’m trying to CAD up something with a general shape, but I may need to play with the textures a bit to see if I can get something that will still be 3d printable as a 3ft diameter, and 6ft tall tube.
We’re also still trying to figure out a way to span the two towers with something light weight.
My CAD software didn’t really have the tools to do the surfacing like I had hopes, so I broke the design into the brick and grout and imported them into blender as STLs. From blender, I chopped up the bricks into itty bitty squares with the ‘remesh’ tool, and then hem’ed and haw’ed over witch texture I liked with the ‘displace’ tool. .
I ended up going with the cloud texture with Improved Perlin to provide the noise to create a ‘random’ appearance to the bricks.
We’ll see how well this prints.
If you’re looking to save weight, could you not just string some cables or ropes across? Something you could attach a banner or sign to?
Could, but then it wouldn’t look like the front of a castle— just two towers with rope/cable connecting them. The banner or sign would need to cover them fully to avoid that.
Perhaps the fabric folks could do up a stone brick pattern as a sheath?
We could probably do something like a traditional truss design between the towers (that splits into 2 or 3 pieces), and then go with a 1x6 or 1x8 framing and some vineer to keep a somewhat period look.
Other notes: on day 2 of 4 of printing a chunk of the castle… fiberglass and resin is on order to test out the process of using the print as a mold. I don’t know if veilply fiberglass will be here before the weekend, but they should be here by the start of next week.
Final print should be 18in tall and assemble into a 3ft diameter tube (well, 3/4 of a tube). …and consume over 7kg of PETG filament. I probably could have thinned up the fill density, but i don’t think i would want to make this a single wall print despite running a .8mm nozzle.
I ran out of time to get the metal frame for the proof of concept Tower section done. If the MIG gun wasn’t broken again, I could have gotten it welded up. If it’s not done by the time I get back in town, I’ll bring it home and weld it or bring the gun from my mm180 and do it.
Man… even at the dimensions we talked about, these parts are looking pretty huge.
(I think i’ll need to graba banana for scale)
You cheated!
The part Dave rolled fits perfectly to the 3d printed mold.
The fiberglass will be in tomorrow, but the mold is gonna need a little cleanup first.
Tbh, I’m still not following how we are going to get a 6’ tall panel out of that.
Schedules have pretty well conspired to keep this from being done in time for the fall faire. I apologize for my misunderstanding as well. After the spring faire I said it should be no trouble to get something built by the next one. I forgot that there are two and so I thought it was a year away.
Im released from [some of] my surgical limitations and im already attending WSU classes, AND now pondering rejoining my peers at MakeICT. I miss yall.
When i left in June, I was about to build a prototype castle panel. Hex tower. 2 ft by 8 ft panel. But it looks like the preference for a round tower has taken off. Ok. Glad i hadnt bought prototype panels yet. Glad we know what we want.
Im still going to build a demo hex core sandwich panel with Aaron. I think. But when ? In Sept or Oct? My calender is so full already… im wondering WHEN i will re-engage at MakeICT. I will.
I haven’t made much progress since that massive print…
I’ve got an inverse mold printing now after coming to the realization that casting this as one massive panel gives a higher chance of failing in a complex mold.
Added bonus by doing smaller molds: we might be able to teach a couple classes on working in fiberglass.
Did you happen to remove any of the relief details to help with it releasing?
I was thinking of the sample you brought to the meeting and how a form like that might have a higher chance of success. That would also lend itself to MDF forms done on the shop bot.
