The last few day have convinced me it is time to have a talk about a code of conduct and enforcing it more proactively. One of the best communities out there I have seen is StackOverflow.
In the past MakeICT seems to have been very open to letting most things slide. It seems that leads to sliding right down into the mud. I don’t want this to be all about censoring free speech, but I do want people write in a professional way reflects on the real issue.
- Warning anything that seems grumpy
- Moderator anyone who is warned a couple and can’t seem to understand
- Ban if it keeps being an issue.
To me the important part is be nicely and friendly warning people. Suggest to them a correct way of saying there core point without it being grumpy. If it is understood we except this to be a safe and positive place then I hope it can be one. Do it early and stop it before it is crazy.
We already have this. Remember when Jeremiah and Jeff got banned from the forum for a month, after attacking each other verbally on the forum?
I think a month is too long… way, way, way too long
(edit: Here I meant a month is too long for them to be attacking each other… I misread the above post… sigh)
Our standing rules in the space are
- Be excellent to each other
- Illegal activity is forbidden
- Share the workspace, tools, supplies, and knowledge
- Pickup after yourself by cleaning the workspace and putting away tools
- Get training on tools before using them
- Make safely (do not be on fire!)
People violate rule #1 way, way too often
Listening to it makes me tired and sad that people don’t get along better. It makes me do posts to try and balance out the negativity. It makes me question if I want to spend time in a place that is always full of arguing.
I want MakeICT to be my happy place… the place where I come to relax and make things.
I’d advocate for a term that varied with the severity of the offense. In some cases, a month isn’t nearly long enough. In others, a week to cool down might do tons of good.
Oops… I thought it said they were attacking each other for a month… lol … it sure seemed that way.
I agree that our Forum at times seems like the Gunfight at the OK Coral.
I like Paul’s idea of tighter control, but warn first and take action if it persists.
Once everyone sees that trolling won’t be tolerated, I think we’ll all be more thoughtful about what we post.
I agree that we need a clear code of conduct with a list of disciplinary actions. Here is a link to the code of conduct for DMS as another reference: https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Rules_and_Policies#Code_of_Conduct
Maybe we can do the same for at the makerspace. Uniform rules for both? Actually produce a path for discipline…even a disciplinary chair person.
Solve problems at the origin.
Yes, I think that would be ideal. There are some things that would be specific to online or in person behavior, but the core expectations are the same.
I should have been more clear. There are issue on the forum AND in the space. This topic was mainly focused on what people think about the forum. The in space issues need addressed also.
That would be a welcomed breathe of fresh air Paul.
We should immediately establish:
- a code of conduct for general membership
- a code of ethical and fiduciary standards for leads and board members
- define a path to discipline with a committee/chair ACTUALLY having the power to act toward resolving issues
- establish a standards and practice for use of logo or makeICT intellectual property as well as tangible property
This would surely slow down or even eliminate our high turn over of board members/leads…if not eliminate it all together.
Some new members are saying that they joined expecting grown adults working together cooperatively in a maker movement…yet FEEL like they ended up financing a quasi flophouse with broken appliances and 5 preassigned playground bullies.
Most assuredly…WE CAN DO BETTER!
This makerspace has grown to a membership size and equipment inventory…numerous other makerspaces are absolutely envious of…lets not let a vacuum of leadership or a fear of change or fear of disciplining buddies… hold our growth back.
Whoever made the comment about the O.K. Corral was right on…i was there 5 minutes with a guest the other night before the showdown was delivered to me…face to face as threatened previously online. New members should not be faced with handling what the board should have organized to prevent from its own leads. Had i handled this less aggressively…i or a guest may have been a victim…NOT acceptable. If make ICT has known problems and known bullies, and they allow the fight to come to somebody peacefully that opens up a lot of liability.
See also recent events occuring to mother and minor child.
Maybe, the wisest choice would be to farm out the trolls and harvest them, expedite their exodus for the better of the organization and the greater good of the membership.
Anyone care to expand on an executable path to permanent resolution and final remedy?
PS the good guys shot first at the o.k. corral??
@Paul, I agree with your for you efforts. I would support a defined code of conduct. It would be good to keep things civil online. It is better to stop things early. It might reduce any escalation.
ive reread this about 5 times before i opened up on this. yes. i can be snarky, im terrible with remembering people, generally i zone out othera around me. insofar as how i act when posting i try to think about how i am saying what im typing because meanings can change over time when others who dont know you what you said. i would never spar with someone in the forum, id just hunt them down in person for clarification, believeyoume its easier that way. as far as a punishment for being brattish in an open forum a month seems adequate. not really in to the whole public shaming thing as it might create martyrs of those shamed and banned. try to look at it this way " treat others the way you like/want to be treated. think of this before you hit send"
Perhaps we could nominate some people to make the code of conduct that everyone can agree are stellar examples of conduct? I would not expect it to take up too much time and would be a " be on the committee, make the rules, present the rules to the board and/or the area leads and then your done" kind of thing… so not a long term commitment.
As I’ve already said to the board of directors if there’s not a working document by Friday, I will set one up.
I like the stackoverflow one that Paul linked to.
Something I notice is that we have a tendency to make things really personal, really fast. It can even be about something simple… just to make something up, we could say: “Our walls are currently gray, I’d like to propose blue, what can I do to help?”
But instead we get harsh: “The gray walls are terrible”
Then we get personal: “Whoever chose gray for the walls was totally stupid.”
Then we make it an epic big deal: “We could be an incredible makerspace but now we will totally fail because we can’t make a simple obvious switch to blue.”
Then we re-hash: “I proposed blue 873 times and no one listened to me or cared.”
This concludes my impression of the MakeICT forum on a bad day. I still don’t know who said it in the member survey, that we need to “find what we agree on and make it happen, stop fighting about every petty little thing” but whoever did, thank you for saying that. It’s my mantra of the year.
My personal forum rules:
- I try to support what I agree with. Find something good in a post and call attention to somebody’s cool idea.
- I’d rather bump up good threads rather than engage in bad ones.
- I do not reply to a thread again unless there are two people since my last reply. Keeps me from arguing back and forth with one person.
- If I’m feeling mad, I copy all my text into a notepad file instead of just hitting SEND. I re-read it in 4-6 hours and see if my anger is coming through and ask myself if I can tone it down somehow.
My mom used to say if you cannot say something nice, don’t say anything at all. That is a rule that has worked really well for me.
You forgot me saying
“Actually we chose grey because Tom McGuire found some paint in a trash bin and we figured someday we could paint it whatever color we wanted”
I’ve had a really rough week so I’m not surprised that the forums exploded. Some sort of weird star alignment. We should see if the forums exploded about this time last year. Point is, We go through this sometimes. Even Reddit explodes sometimes. A code of conduct and a formal path to redemption is a great idea. A way for us to say “that was fucked up. Banished for x amount of time or until you accomplish y” what is important is to close the loop and say “it’s been x amount of time, things have cooled off, can we not do the fucked up thing again?”
Perhaps that’s a harsh colloquial verbiage but it gets the idea across. I would also like to point out I am no good in a fight and too old to run. Unless I’m running faster than David Springs.
Though he has wheels now
I resemble that remark, and I’m tired of your insulation.